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Coordinatesystems in MiPro

  • 1.  Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-26-2021 05:42
    Hi there,

    when i do trainings in MiPro it's allways a sure laugh when it comes to choose a new coordinate-system, and you have all participants sitting there with this "you must be joking" Expression on their faces:
    What: You cannot search for a coordinate system?
    What: You cannot search for an EPSG-Code?
    What: Not every coordinate-system definition is associated with an EPSG-Code?
    What: The list of categories is not even sorted in any way?
    ...that makes looking for the right coordinate system real fun.

    When looking for the official German Federal coordinate system: UTM 32N based on ETRS89 with the EPSG-Code 25832,
    it gets even worse:
    I think anyone would suggest to find it in a category named UTM.... but


    no, there it isn't.
    If you know what to search for you can find it in the PRJ-File here:


    "--- Danish Bounded Coordinate Systems---"
    "Bounded UTM Zone 32 ETRS89\p25832", 2008, 115, 7, 9.0, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0, 50000.0, 5750000.0, 1050000.0, 6750000.0
    "Bounded UTM Zone 33 ETRS89\p25833", 2008, 115, 7, 15.0, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0, -200000.0, 5750000.0, 800000.0, 6750000.0

    "--- Lithuanian Coordinate Systems ---"
    "UTM Zone 34 (EUREF89)\p25834", 8, 115, 7, 21, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0
    "UTM Zone 35 (EUREF89)\p25835", 8, 115, 7, 27, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0

    "--- ETRS Transverse Mercator (ETRS89) ---"
    "ETRS TM Zone 32, Northern Hemisphere (ETRS89)\p3044", 8, 115, 7, 9, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0
    "ETRS TM Zone 33, Northern Hemisphere (ETRS89)\p3045", 8, 115, 7, 15, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0
    "ETRS TM Zone 34, Northern Hemisphere (ETRS89)\p3046", 8, 115, 7, 21, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0
    "ETRS TM Zone 35, Northern Hemisphere (ETRS89)\p3047", 8, 115, 7, 27, 0, 0.9996, 500000, 0

    So MiPro calls this a Danish Coordinate System (Hi Peter H., - it's not exclusivly yours!)
    You can find the same crs under "ETRS Transverse Mercator", - why is it called ETRS Transverse Mercator,
    when it is called UTM in Danish & Lithuanian Coordinate Systems? It's the same definition.

    From my point of view it would be consequent to rename the ETRS Transverse Mercator - Kategorie to
    Universal Transverse Mercator (ETRS89) so that one is able to find it, or what would you think?

    Now MiPro 2021 can use GDAL to open some more file formats, but wait, - what about coordinate systems here?

    Just yesterday a customer send me a shape file that he wasn't able to open with mipro, but he claimed, that it was in UTM 32N ETRS89.
    When trying to open it with the new GDAL-Format-Option i got this dialog:


    without any possibility to change the sourcefile coordinate system. I suggest, this relys on the ability of gdal to get the crs from the file,
    but remember: the *.prj-File of a shapefile is optional, and not mandatory. So if there isn't such a file, even gdal get's lost.
    When i tried an ogrinfo on that file, it told me, that the crs is unknown.

    In the end i found out, that the file was in a coordinate system mipro doesn't know anything about, EPSG 5650 (..UTM 32N with leading 32 in the x-coordinate), so i generated the missing lines for the customer Mapinfow.prj-File and he could translate it via UT.

    But the thing is: GDAL does know this CRS, so ogr2ogr can translate from 5650 to 25832,
    and since MiPro 2021 utilizes GDAL in the background, this should be technicaly possible with MiPro 2021, - if you were able to choose the right crs when opening the file.

    Would be great to have this option in a future version!

    best regards
    Stefan


  • 2.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-28-2021 14:31
    Hi Stephan,

    You would be just the right man to review my "Projection Explorer" app on the Windows Store!

    It is just a demo, and it is free. Download it from the Windows Store by searching for "Projection Explorer" by Roberts Geospatial Engineering.

    It is based on the MapInfo PRJ file and allows you to search for your desired projection using EPSG code or any other text or by clicking on a world map, in addition to searching by category. It has some of the improvements you are asking for but still suffers from some of the limitations.

    The app uses EPSG code extensively and many of the coordinate systems in the PRJ file do not have an EPSG code, which is an annoying limitation. However, it would probably be hard work to comprehensively upgrade the PRJ file. Worth talking about though! Maybe someone could write some software to semi-automate the process by matching with the EPSG database.

    Let me know if you like it! The app will soon appear as a projection selection tool in some new software I am going to release early next year called ProRaster.
    Projection Explorer search dialog


    ------------------------------
    Sam Roberts
    Founder, Roberts Geospatial Engineering
    Australia
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-28-2021 15:54
    Hi Sam,

    thanks for your hint and the screenshots look promising (embarrassing for precisely i would say), - but maybe you use a different Microsoft store, but mine, here in germany, doesn't know about your Projection Explorer.
    Search reveals no results, sorry.

    ..nice city Adelaide!

    kind regards
    Stefan



  • 4.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-28-2021 17:40
    Thanks for trying!

    I just checked the Microsoft Store and it indicates the app is available in 241 countries including Germany. Also, several people have acquired and/or installed the app in Germany. So I am guessing it is there... somewhere... I am not sure how to help you further. Maybe search based on the company name - Roberts Geospatial Engineering.

    ------------------------------
    Sam Roberts
    Founder, Roberts Geospatial Engineering
    Australia
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Employee
    Posted 11-28-2021 19:15
    Hi Stefan,

    We are making changes to Coordinate System selection dialog in version 2021.1 and it will have ability to search coordinate systems by name/EPSG. It will also have ability to setup favorite projections and will remember recently used coordinate systems.

    If you have suggestions on specific German groups for coordinate systems, we would be happy to add them to PRJ file.

    Regards,
    Andrei


    ------------------------------
    Andrei Veselov
    Precisely
    Troy NY
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-29-2021 03:31
    Edited by Stefan Hausmann 11-29-2021 06:59
    Hi there,

    @Sam Roberts
    Microsoft Store does know about your app, but cannot find it in the end:


    But when i click on it i got told, that this app is not available:

    Maybe i'm doing something wrong here, never used that ms store, except to install the linux subsystem.

    UPDATE
    After repairing & resetting my MS store app i can find your app. But since i can only download & install it with an ms user id, that i don't have and don't want, i can only review your screenshots, - but they look realy promising.

    @Andrei Veselov
    A search function for coordinate systems would be great!
    A good start for a collection of german coordinate systems would be EPSG-Codes 25832, 25833, 31466 to 31469, 4647, 5830 to 5835, 5682 to 5685, 5676 to 5679, 5650, 3396 to 3399, 4314, 4746, 5666 to 5669, 8395 and 3068.
    This is a most probably incomplete list, but should cover over 90% of the used crs' in germany.

    Another suggestion would be:
    The screenshot of the open GDAL-Format-Dialog in my first posting shows a box, where the user has to enter manually the encoding, - this is really harsh. At first how should the user know, what encodings are supported, and second how to exactly write them down here. So a drop-down list would be much better, - from my point of view.

    Thanks for your effort
    and
    kind regards

    Stefan


  • 7.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-29-2021 11:36
    I got to the same point. An MS ID is required to download it.
    Why not simply keeping it on your own website?

    ------------------------------
    Uffe Kousgaard
    ROUTEWARE
    Roskilde
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 11-29-2021 15:55
    Yes, you need a Microsoft Account to install apps on the Microsoft Store.

    For future reference, if you can't find an app, or you found it but can't install it, here are some reasons why you might not see it:

    Your PC isn't authorized to use Microsoft Store apps.
    You'll need to sign in to the app with your Microsoft account.

    Your IT department has placed a restriction on your PC disallowing access to the Microsoft Store.

    Your PC was recently updated but wasn't restarted.
    If updates for Windows were recently installed, you'll need to restart your PC before you can install apps from Microsoft Store.

    The app is no longer available.
    When an app is removed from Microsoft Store, it takes a little time for the app description page to get removed. In addition, some apps and games aren't available in Microsoft Store but can be downloaded from the publisher's site directly.

    The app isn't compatible with your device.
    Microsoft Store automatically hides or blocks the purchase button on apps that are incompatible with your device. You might see an app from Microsoft Store available on your PC, but not on another PC, or your Xbox.

    Microsoft family settings might be hiding apps.
    Parents can use family settings to make sure that their children can't view or install apps that are inappropriate for their age.

    The app isn't available in your country or region.
    Not all apps are available worldwide. An app available in France might not be available in Germany. If you bought an app in one country or region and then you moved to another one, the apps you had might disappear.

    Your local Microsoft Store installation is buggered.
    You can reset the Microsoft Store using these commands -
    Press the Windows logo key + R to open the Run dialog box.
    Enter wsreset.exe then select OK.
    A blank command prompt window will open, and after about ten seconds the window will close and Microsoft Store will open automatically.

    If you do not have a Microsoft Account then you will be logging in to Windows using a Local Account (otherwise known as an Offline Account). Apparently, you can still download apps from the Microsoft Store as long as you are using Windows 10 1909 or later and the app is FREE. For information take a look at the instructions on this website - https://www.digitalcitizen.life/microsoft-store-without-microsoft-account/

    ------------------------------
    Sam Roberts
    Founder, Roberts Geospatial Engineering
    Australia
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Employee
    Posted 11-30-2021 18:28
    Hi Stefan,

    I will post details in the lab in a few days about the new csys dialog.

    For new here is a screenshot/teaser...



    ps. Have you tried the new ribbon mapbasic statements yet? We had you in mind.

    ------------------------------
    Bob Fortin
    Software Architect and Distinguished Engineer
    MapInfo Pro Development Team
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 12-01-2021 04:35
    Good morning Bob,

    thanks for this teaser and this looks really good!
    I don't know, how you realized this in the background: In the .PRJ-File of MiPro there is only one Text-String describing the CRS, and this is, as far as i understand, the same string that is used to display this crs in the dialog. This architecture would limit the search to the elements contained in that string, and since descriptions and names of crs vary sometimes as you can see for example at the different names of EPSG:25832 in this post, it might be worth of thinking about extending the crs definition with a more descriptive field/column that can be searched.
    But having a search capable of finding the EPSG-Code and organize your mostly used crs in a favourite-hot-list is quite a leap forward.

    To test the new ribbon statements in MiPro 2021 was the first thing i wanted to test, but as you might have seen in this forum, i had some problems in installing the first released, not internationalized version and now with the activation of the new build 183. but now i should be ready to test those and will do that asap.

    So thanks for your effort
    and have a nice day

    Stefan


  • 11.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Employee
    Posted 12-02-2021 16:29
    Hi Stefan,

    For the short time we have for 2021.1 we are just updating the UI but keeping the .prj file format the same.

    I will create a story to add a group for the  you suggested above.
    Do you have a name in mind for the group?

    ------------------------------
    Bob Fortin
    Software Architect and Distinguished Engineer
    MapInfo Pro Development Team
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Coordinatesystems in MiPro

    Posted 12-03-2021 10:52
    Hi Bob,

    well what about the simple "German coordinate systems" or if you want it the localized way: "Deutsche Koordinatensysteme".

    Stefan